Jiao [Civilian/Fox]

[Jiao]

Name: Jiao (though likely to develop nicknames from others)

Age: 7

Date of Birth: 17th March

Birthplace: Receiving Mountain 

Gender: Male

Sexual Orientation: Unknown...

Face Claim: Original Art by Apofiss

Appearance: 

Class: Civilian

Arcana: Hermit


Occupation: Unemployed

Weapons and Proficiencies (Optional): Claws (Slash) and Teeth (Pierce) are both easily used, and well-practised methods of attack for Jiao.


Personality: In some ways, Jiao is very stereotypical of foxes in Asia, possessing a remarkable intelligence for animal - he is rather cunning and wily as well. This slyness is something his kind are renown for, but even so, Jiao tends to be rather slippery around those he does not trust. Unlike a lot of natural foxes however, he can actually come to trust people a great deal if shown genuine kindness, or at the very least, politeness. This is especially true for those that visit the shrine in earnest, as Jiao lives nearby and often comes to watch the people going to & from the sacred area. Sometimes he even ventures out into the open, though normally only when one or two people are around, and approaches them inquisitively, studying their actions and reactions closely.

However, he is also a somewhat proud creature, and insults quickly fan his bestial anger, which can be rather fierce if one is unprepared. Nevertheless, this capacity for rage has a diametrically opposite capacity for affection and attachment, to kin or those he regards as close enough to be kin. Just don't go pulling on his tail or anything; he can and will bite you.


Likes:
-The scent of blueberries
-Being scratched just behind the ears
-Running & climbing (and lots of it)
-Kind and considerate people

Dislikes: (also list at least four)


-Insults (even mild ones)
-Melons (the scent is repulsive)
-Brash, arrogant people
-His tail being pulled (though petting is alright)

History: Jiao is part of a small family of foxes that reside amongst Receiving Mountains, living not far from the Keystone Shrine. Raised amongst a few siblings, he and his brethren didn't interact with society all too often until they were a few years old at least, which was when they would hunt as a group, and cautiously investigate the humans from a distance. Unlike his family, Jiao was particularly curious, and often got a lot closer, though he stayed well-hidden; being discovered in the slightest sent him running from such contact. 

Generally liking his solitude, he travelled on his own a lot, venturing into the surrounding areas of Mosaic City and generally gathering as much knowledge as a fox feasibly can. Still trying to gain more than that, but alas, one can always dream. Nevertheless, he kept close ties to his siblings and his parents, returning home regularly to play & eat with them. The routine became increasingly regular though, and Jiao stifled under the rigidity of it, spending more and more time in the outer regions of Mosaic City.

This, of course, led to his witnessing of the truth outside the inner circle, having seen the devastation first-hand, as well as the beings that caused it. His efforts to fight them off weren't futile, but proved mostly ineffective against them, and more often than not, Jiao was forced to scout in a very secretive manner, running & climbing at full-tilt if he was discovered. His family, upset by the invasion into their home when Jiao relayed the news, attempted to make their own solutions; the children (his siblings) became interested in his coming & goings, beginning to imitate his actions without properly assessing the danger they were in, essentially exploring in a brash manner. Even when they came very close to being found out on multiple occasions, the younger foxes were not deterred, and unfortunately fell victim to a clever pincer manoeuvre by a group of shadows when they strayed too far into the Shadowlands. In a way, they, like Jiao, were driven by a sort of desperation underneath everything - they did not want the destruction to visit upon their home. Unfortunately, they also did not know that they were facing an entire army of darkness, either.

After they had been missing for a couple days, Jiao set off to investigate, finding the poor, badly treated remains of his brethren after a full day's search. After grieving as much as possible, and giving what meagre a burial he could whilst in dangerous territory, he returned home to inform his parents that the younger foxes had been attacked and killed, both of whom bore the news as best as they could, though they eventually could not contain their grief and became very much reserved, staying well away from the humans and simply trying to get by each day. 

Much like his parents, Jiao was stricken with grief for the loss of his siblings, but he also could not bear being around his parents whilst they were all like that. Instead, he isolated himself and made his own shelter near the shrine, though he kept small resting spots all over the outer circle; safehouses that he could flit between whilst he scouted out the situation to the best of his ability. Nonetheless, he was a fox - even as intelligent as he was for his kind, Jiao could only do so much. Repeating his scouting habits anyway, he became more or less a recluse, though he still ventured amongst the humans, sticking to shadows and vantage points. 

Lately however, the destruction that became apparent (from the full moon battles, some of which he caught a little of from a great distance) has made him far more nervous about the situation, and he has pondered the idea of following those he witnessed fighting the shadows, in an attempt to find out more.

OOC Name: Aphyria

[ChromaticTruthsayer]

No.

I have just one main opposition to this. Namely, the fact that foxes aren't capable of the complex thinking, communication, and emotions displayed in the history. A few examples would include the relaying of information in regards to the incident and the siblings of the fox becoming "foolhardy" enough to start venturing out there. Next, foxes wouldn't be capable of thoughts that would drive them to hide their emotions in front of their children.

To give you an idea of what would be acceptable, very basic level communication, emotion, and thinking would work. Communication, emotions and thinking patterns would likely be on the level of a small toddler to give you an idea.

In all, he simply understands a bit too much, even for a slightly above average intelligence fox.

Part 2: As stated above, "relaying information about the incident" was something not acceptable but it is still in the history. This would naturally mean relaying of any news of the deaths of the other foxes as well.

Again, the thoughts of the parents are still far too complex for foxes. "Prying into human affairs" isn't even something they should be able to comprehend. I could go into detail more but the description above should already tell you what can and can't stay. This of course, being that I don't expect anything beyond a toddler's comprehension. Basically, this is simply not "realistic." Yes, personas aren't real either however we aren't bending anything more than what is in persona.

Part 3: Third time, relaying information on the incident isn't acceptable. You just seem to be slightly rewording it. Then there is the idea that they begin to "try and find solutions" to the issue. They aren't capable of forming plans. Lastly, I would say that foxes can feel depressed if their children were killed that is fine. However, for Jiao to feel guilt over his siblings deaths and to blame himself is still too complex of a feeling.

Naturally, playing as an animal in an RP requires an understanding of their limitations. Pushing the limits of what they can and can't do should be unnecessary. If it needs to be corrected multiple times, that will simply keep happening ICly. That being said, consider the limitations carefully and edit it appropriately.

[Jiao]

Just gonna put it here, since I don't know if we'll catch each other on the box any time soon or not (can always delete the excess conversation later).

Firstly, the bit about relaying you said was fine, since all it involves is telling them that a) something/someone new is in our territory and b) the others were killed.
Basic problem-solving skills are evident in the natural world, especially by foxes, who are known for using their cunning to approach things differently when circumstances change. Finding solutions isn't restricted to humans. As for the feeling of guilt/blame, it's also evident in the natural world, though more subtly (since guilt isn't an easy thing to analyse in beings we can't speak to). It's perhaps not so much the human concept of rational guilt, but rather an irrational feeling of being at fault when something bad happens, and knowing your actions have something to do with it - some dogs that misbehave, for instance, become sullen, jumpy and/or erratic.

I am well aware of how playing animals works within an RP, and that there are serious limitations in doing so. I also do a fair bit of research into animal behaviour when I play such characters, to try and keep within those bounds. I'm also using the actual examples of intelligent animals in Persona as guidelines, and as far as I can tell, Jiao isn't pushing the boundaries of the intelligence shown with Koromaru and the Hermit Fox in P4 (who inspired some of this character, as you can likely tell).

[Erithania]

Chrom has reviewed this profile three times to the present. Therefore, to shake things up a bit, and to bring a new perspective into this review, I'll be taking over for the time being. Below, you'll find my concerns with what I've read here.

The first issue arises with the whole sharing of information regarding Shadows. Okay, transmission of information aside, Jiao and his siblings have all seemed to think it was a good idea to challenge what is essentially an army of darkness that is killing off everything past the wall. Commendable bravery, sure, but animal instinct typically provokes fleeing. I could understand one outing to survey, then understanding it was simply too dangerous, but they continued to go into those situations in the outer wall, which led to their death. To me, that seems like defiance of their own natural instincts.

Now, moving onto the emotional bit. As mentioned before, these animals have acted in contrast to natural instinct. Animals, at the basest of levels, are driven by two things: Food (survival) and mating (passing on their genetic information for future generations). The parents have reason to despair, sure. Their seed of the next generation was just annulled. Jiao, to an extent, would likely feel some sorrow, yes, since they all seemed to stick together for the most part (another thing that typically wouldn't happen, as, once matured, animals try to spread their genetic data to other areas), however the regret/guilt thing is a bit much from a wild animal, even in my eyes. If there was some sort of whiplash anticipated (typically a sign of domestication), this would be understandable, though.

Now, to address your arguments in the post you have, I'll split them up similar to the bits above, with quotes to address each section individually.

“It's perhaps not so much the human concept of rational guilt, but rather an irrational feeling of being at fault when something bad happens, and knowing your actions have something to do with it - some dogs that misbehave, for instance, become sullen, jumpy and/or erratic.”

While this is a point, there's something to keep in mind here. “Misbehaving” is not a concept to an animal in the wild. This is a concept known only to domesticated animals who have had new standards imposed upon them by their human master. Typically, these dogs regard their human, when trained properly, as their alpha. Communication is simpler between beasts because their intelligence is limited and allows for “simpler” messages, as opposed to the complex ones that we humans try to communicate to them.

“. I'm also using the actual examples of intelligent animals in Persona as guidelines, and as far as I can tell, Jiao isn't pushing the boundaries of the intelligence shown with Koromaru and the Hermit Fox in P4 “

Again, this is a point, but there's a catch that needs to be considered. In the case of Koromaru, he was intelligent, yes. However, he was also trained. He was trained to the point that his human partner was so dear to him that he guarded the shrine, alone, for months (or I think it was months). In other words, human intervention makes this a moot point. In the case of All-Yo-Yens, while it's a bit more questionable, the fox did have an appreciation for money, suggesting that, as opposed to Jiao, who simply observed, he was more intimately tied to the shrine's owner, and therefore had a different set of values.

While it's fine that you're taking inspiration from them, both of these characters were closely tied to humans, where Jiao mostly observed and attempted to learn that way. The notations of him fleeing from contact and typically choosing solitude heavily imply that close ties with a human, or humans, has not occurred, and therefore cannot be used as an excuse for his more “advanced” parts of his intelligence and emotional complexity.

That about sums up my interpretation of the profile. Given that it's an animal, we do have to be a bit stricter, so yeah. My rejection was a bit wordy, but I tried to explain, more clearly, the issues I found.

[Jiao]

Actually, looking at it that way, I do see your point on the issue of domestication. I'll edit the guilt section back to something more along the lines of what the parents experience, though obviously for slightly different reasons ('cause even wild animals form ties with those close to them).

Human-trained or not though, there's a fairly high amount of base intelligence there for both of those animals though, and that's what I'm trying to aspire to really. Trying to still take out the parts that are based on human influence though, as you've pointed out.

As for the siblings not fleeing, it's actually not uncommon for wild animals to push their luck, even in dangerous situations (even outside of those forced to do so in desperation, such as when starving). I'll edit it though, because the close calls were more meant to be coming very close to being found out, but not actually being attacked.

Oh, and as for why the persevere in general - they don't know that it's an army of darkness. They just know that there are these things invading what used be human territory, and they're very much afraid of the same thing happening to their home. As such, they're driven by a sense of desperation to find out what the can - they don't want it happening to them.

[ChromaticTruthsayer]

Gonna keep this brief since there isn't really much of a reason to drag it out. Once again, you didn't change the things that needed to be changed. Instead, you simply reworded them in an attempt to force it through the process. Now, our personal rule is to outright deny a character completely after having failed five reviews. We believe this is more than generous. As such, we will be archiving this character profile. You may feel free to try again with a brand new character. However, reviewing this character has brought some minor issues to light. As such, after some discussion, we have decided that allowing animals will not fit into P:SP in a sufficient way. We will ask that you stick to normal characters should you wish to make one. That is all.